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Bill
Rodgers won the Boston and New York City Marathons four times each
and ran in the 1976 Olympics. Now 53, he continues to travel to
25 races a year from his home in Massachusetts. We spoke on April
7, the morning before the Nortel Networks Cherry Blossom Ten Mile
Run, in Washington, D.C.
Scott
Douglas: What's the status of your running?
Bill
Rodgers:
I'm having an Achilles problem. I've tried to run through it and
finesse it. It's not a killer injury, but it means I haven't done
speedwork. Going into a race without having done speedwork makes
me very nervous. I ran the Azalea Trail 10k two weeks ago. There
and at another 10k this year, I ran 34 minutes; I was happy with
those. But I haven't done any speed since February. Tomorrow, I'm
just going to shoot for 59 minutes. [The next day, Rodgers ran the
first six miles on pace to break 57:00, then stepped off the course
because of his injury. After sitting in a bus for about 10 minutes
and telling himself he had never dropped out of a race that's not
a marathon, he got back on the course and jogged to the finish in
1:14:03.]
SD:
When you turned 50 a few years ago, you were
trying to get American age-group records.
BR:
Yeah, I didn't get any age-group records. I got some single age
records, for 50, 51, 52.
SD:
Now that you're 53 and aren't going to get
any of the 50-54 records, are you starting to look at the 55-59
marks?
BR:
Not right now. I'm taking it one step at a time right now. If I
feel good and everything I might. I think they're a bit weaker,
not only because the people are older but because some of the guys
like Norm Green who did so well when they were younger really started
to slow down in their middle 50s. The competitive side…I'm
still competitive and all, but it's not the only focus or interest
I have in my life.
SD:
So thinking about those marks doesn't get
you excited or motivated?
BR:
Not right now because it's too far away. I haven't looked at the
records too closely, I haven't been thinking about it that much.
We had a very hard winter this year!
SD:
At this race a few years ago, you were going
for a specific time and that guided your training. Now that those
goals don't exist, how do you go about knowing what you could run?
BR:
Like anyone else, I base it on my training and my earlier races.
But I know I'm not in my best shape. My racing right now is not
the top priority for me, for more personal reasons in my life. It
always means something to me --running means a great deal to me
-- but the racing side…If you're injured, you need to take
care of that, and you lose the focus on your racing. I trained hard
this winter. I did a 20-miler, some 18-milers on the Boston course.
I got to a high of 87 or 89 miles. I did a 15-miler last weekend
and awww, my foot started to hurt!
SD:
You're still very, very much in demand. Race
directors might even like it if you to come to races and run someplace
other than the top 1 percent.
BR:
They don't care how fast I run. It's a matter of pride for me. But
you're right, the race directors don't care. Here at the Nortel
Networks Cherry Blossom, they said you're welcome to run any pace
you choose. Sometimes I run relays. That's what I'll be doing at
the Oklahoma City Marathon, Flying Pig and probably also the Silicon
Valley Marathon in October. They auction me off to other people
who want to be on my team. I'm supposed to bring great speed to
the team. Little do they know I'm not quite as fast as Fita Bayesa
or Haile Gebrselassie! But they don't care, it's for fun and encouragement.
But usually I run my relay legs pretty hard, you know? I use them
as tune-ups for other races.
SD:
What about the other aspects of your professional
life? You're still very involved with Running Times. What
else? You don't have a shoe contract, is that right?
BR:
I don't have a shoe deal. There aren't too many endorsements available
for any runners, no matter what your age. I still work with John
Hancock and the Boston Marathon. Financially I do well, I'm happy
with it. I haven't missed being with a shoe company in the sense
that I don't have to bust my butt for them. I think I did more for
shoe companies in terms of daily labor than any other road racing
athlete. I also like the option of picking out my own racing shoes.
But I would be interested in working with one if something good
came up.
Other than
that, little things come along. I got asked to talk to a law firm
for an hour about the Chase Corporate Challenge. I think, "This
is cool, I'll take your money." And of course I do stuff for
free, for charity organizations in Boston. But I still have to make
a living, and a lot of people don't understand that and don't offer
me much money. I had one company that wanted me to come in and work
for four hours at a marathon expo and they didn't offer me very
much, and I sorta vetoed it. It's kinda frustrating. On the other
hand, I know there are many runners who really struggle and are
in poverty where I was, and that's part of our sport.
SD:
To the extent that you ever thought about
this 25 years ago...
BR:
Ha!
SD:
So you didn't think you'd be sitting here
on a bed on a Saturday…
BR: Would people
fly me into races 25 years later? No. It's like asking about the
running boom. No one foresaw it, and I never foresaw that I'd be
a 'professional' runner, that I'd make my living at it. That would
be ridiculous. And I never foresaw that I'd keep going. I knew that
I always wanted to run. I love going to the races, I love meeting
the runners.
SD:
You said how you used to live in poverty.
You're now working with Running USA to try to change that for others.
What does that entail?
BR:
I've talked a lot with Ryan Lamppa at Running USA about how to get
the word out to the American running public on fundraising for top
up-and-coming post-collegiate American distance runners. Ryan has
talked about putting a letter in Runner's World, Running
Times, explaining what the program entails and how American
runners can help our international representatives, the people who
are really struggling to stay in the sport. You know, tell how to
use some of the money we raised through these different organizations,
whether it's races like the New York City Marathon or other races.
I hope other races will step forward and make a donation to Running
USA. Our Jingle Bell Run will be sending a check.
Ryan has made
very good progress with these Olympic-level training camps, like
in Chula Vista, or Rochester, N.Y. We're seeing results. Any effort
will help. Of course, the New York City Marathon is the American
championship this year -- these are all positive steps for American
runners.
SD:
How do you make the case to the average runner
that they should care about some 25-year-old rather than money from
races going to a hospital or some other charity?
BR:
I think you can do both. Other events raise money for charity and
worthwhile causes. These are our Olympians, our international representatives,
and it's such a high-impact sport, so to have Americans in the mix
leads to more excitement about a race. But also I think we want
to support our international representatives. Maybe a lot of beginners
don't feel that connection, but over time, they come to see how
the sport is so good for them, and they see that these athletes
are not only good athletes but good representatives in their communities
and internationally, that they're very well educated and have a
deep love for the sport.
SD:
If someone came to you and said, "Why
should I care whether American distance runners are good,"
what do you say?
BR:
They can be motivators to other runners. Just like in other sports,
they can play a key role in motivating people to stay focused on
what their goals are. They can look to our top runners and learn
from them about how they became a better runner, how they conquered
injuries or became fitter and got more out of life, how they have
this program that they make part of their life. In other words,
they can emulate these runners; they can do the same thing. Hopefully
it's feeling a little bit of connection, an emotional connection.
People have emotional connections to people they see in big stadiums
that they never get close to, and yet you might be on the starting
line with our top Americans.
SD:
You've said how when you were at your best,
it was different because there weren't tons of altitude-born athletes
at every race, and that how things are now make it hard for Americans.
At the same time, you ran 2:09 at Boston twice. If you ran 2:09
at Boston last year, you would have won. Someone playing devil's
advocate could say, "Well, why can't these guys at least run
2:09? It's not like people are running so much faster than 20, 25
years ago." So why is the onslaught of Kenyans an impediment
to American success?
BR:
I don't think it's really an impediment. The Kenyans are a good
focus for our top runners to emulate. Their programs are good programs
that we are now applying -- group training in a kind of isolated
environment where you can really focus for a period of time and
help each other, push each other. This is the way to do it.
I would like
to see some of the races do a better job of offering incentives
to Americans. It's encouraging to see what the New York City Marathon
is doing, with a separate purse for the Americans. I'd like to see
that at Boston, at Chicago and all the big races, because it's important
to help these people stay in there. You can do almost any job in
America and make more than a distance runner. These young up-and-coming
runners, they're extremely idealistic, they're running for these
dreams, it's almost like a movie.
But it's such
a demanding occupation to be a distance runner. You can't really
work and make much money otherwise, so they often struggle financially,
and if there's no chance to make much money on the roads because
it might go to altitude-born athletes, that's pretty tough. On the
other hand, I love the international-born athletes, what they bring
to our sport. I love our sport representing itself that way to our
country. I believe in international sport; I think we have too much
focus on domestic sports like baseball, football.
SD:
Speaking of running 2:09 at Boston, is one
of your wins there most memorable?
BR:
They're all memorable, but winning in '75 was the most memorable,
the one that had the most impact on my life. That first one was
where I got invitations to go to other races and where I suddenly
realized…I knew I could run faster than I had the year before,
because I had won the bronze medal in the world cross country the
month before, and I felt pretty damn good in that race. It was not
a tough race for me except at the very last 700-800 meters, because
I didn't have enough fast-twitch fibers. If I had those…I wasn't
really tired -- I went out the next day and did a two-hour run.
I wasn't beat up, I just didn't have the speed. So from that race,
I kinda sensed I had really improved.
I didn't have
much else in my life at the time. I was poor, I was in grad school,
I was a little nervous about becoming a teacher. My real passion
was running, and suddenly I was a top runner, and there was even
a little money coming in, which further encouraged me. It wasn't
much money, but it gave me encouragement, and that's why I think
today…I was here at the elite athlete room --actually, I don't
like that word "elite" -- I was in the international athlete
room, and I saw these runners looking at the prize money chart and
showing each other how much money was there. For Americans it's
not a lot of money, but for someone from a Third World economy,
it is a lot of money. They're just as excited as heck to be checking
out the money. I don't think the average runners are aware of that,
and neither is the sports media, even the media that covers our
sport. They're not aware of how much of a focus, a driving force
that is for these runners.
SD:
Why don't you like the word "elite"?
BR:
Bad connotations. There's some kind of a backlash against our top
runners. There's just not that much support for them in the running
magazines or from shoe companies.
SD:
In American society in general, if you call
someone an elitist, it's a put-down.
BR:
Yeah, it's a put-down. To use the word is a mistake for our sport.
It has negative connotations for beginning runners, who think, "Elite
runner? What the heck is this?" Other athletes aren't called
elite athletes. Are basketball players in the NBA called the elite
NBA players? What does that mean?
SD:
Getting back to Boston in '75. You got the
bronze at the world champs, so you knew you were better than the
year before, when you ran 2:19. You went from 2:19 to 2:09.
BR:
Yes. People thought I was on drugs! But there were no drugs in those
days. The world record then was 2:08:34, Ian Thompson had run 2:09:12,
Ron Hill had done 2:09, so back then, that made me the fourth fastest
in the world. I was very, very stunned, really psyched. But I thought
I would go faster. I went to Fukuoka that December and ran 2:11.
Actually, my first marathon after winning Boston was a DNF in Holland,
on a hot day in May. That's when I came up with the term, "The
marathon can humble you," which is now on a shirt that we sell
in our store. My brother did that to kind of remind me.
SD:
Going out in the race, you knew you were a
lot fitter than the previous year. Did you think, "Yeah, I
can win"?
BR:
I felt very competitive. After world cross country, there was a
major, major change, a breakthrough. I was duking it out with the
best runners in the world there and beat all of them except two
people. Right behind me was John Walker. Still you can't translate
that to a marathon. I think that's the neat thing about the marathon,
is that it's always kind of a toss-up. A lot depends on the weather.
Fortunately, we had a very good weather day -- I like cool weather
-- but I knew I could duke it out with most of the runners there,
like Jerome Drayton from Canada and the Mexicans. As it turned out,
Steve Hoag from the U.S. took second in 2:11 that day. So we did
have good Americans, some real marathoners.
SD:
Do you think now some of our top runners wait
too long to focus on the marathon?
BR:
Yes. We've seen it over the years. I can think of some very, very
fine 10k runners who tried to move to the marathon but they were
really tired from training so hard for the 10k for six, eight, ten
years, that by the time they tried the marathon, their heart wasn't
in it, their body was real tired. I think some of the runners thought,
"I'll make some money here." They think the marathon is
easier than the 10K -- you know, that whole thing about road racing
being easier than the track. Then they find there are a hell of
a lot of very, very fine marathoners running for that money. The
marathon is a different breed of cat. It's not like the 10k.
SD:
You started Boston two years ago and dropped
out at Heartbreak Hill. Do you ever think about doing not just Boston,
but any marathon?
BR:
Certainly I think about running Boston again. It's my favorite marathon.
But I don't think I'll try to compete in it. I don't know if I'll
ever race a marathon again. I don't feel the drive at all. I might
some day -- never say never. I will run it to finish it next time
at a moderate pace. Two years ago, I was trying to set the age-50
American record there.
I'm pretty
content with aiming for the half marathon. That's my longest race
now. I like to feel fit, and that's the drive for me, to use the
racing to feed that. I don't want to lose that ever. The lure of
the marathon…I like to go there and meet the runners and run
a relay leg and be part of that. I still love that, but I don't
know about going the full 26. I've done so many hard marathons.
Ha! We'll see.
Scott
Douglas is a contributing editor to Running Times and
co-author of four running books, including Advanced Marathoning
(Human Kinetics, 2001).
(April 2001)
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