Interview: Keith Dowling

By Scott Douglas

A presence in American distance running since the early 90s, Keith Dowling will run his second Olympic Marathon Trials in Birmingham, Alabama, on February 7. He was sixth in the 1996 Trials, then missed the 2000 Trials with a stress fracture. Track & Field News ranked Dowling fifth among American marathoners in 2002, the year that he set his PR of 2:13:28. His most recent marathon was last summer's World Championships race, where he finished 47th in 2:18:17. Dowling, 34, lives in Reston, Virginia, with his wife, Michele, and their four-month-old daughter, Emma.

MensRacing.com caught up with Dowling a month before the Trials, as he was ending an altitude training stint in Albuquerque, and was about to head to Phoenix for P.F. Chang's Rock 'n' Roll Half Marathon.

MR: How long have you been in Albuquerque?
KD: I got here December 14. I'm following the same sort of blueprint that I did before Boston in 2002. Then, I came out to Albuquerque at the same point in my buildup. I spent 21 days here that time, then raced the 15K in Jacksonville. I didn't feel very good doing that — coming down, and then racing. This time I'm going pretty much straight to the race at the end of being at altitude.

MR: So why Albuquerque for this amount of time at this point?
KD: It's worked for me in the past, and I'm sticking with it. The thing for me is to figure out for what segment of my 12-week buildup I want to be here. I usually end it five weeks out from the marathon.

MR: How did you arrive at that formula?
KD: You know, I spent eight years living here at altitude, then I came back down to sea level in 2001. It was probably in discussion with Dr. (David) Martin and doing my own sort of homework — 21 days to one month is usually textbook advice for the amount of time to spend at altitude to get the benefit.

Actually, I'm ending it earlier than most coaches and physiologists would say to. I like to do my last four weeks at sea level, focusing on hitting the paces I want my body to remember in the race. When I lived here, I thought, 'Oh, the marathon is easy to train for here. 5:00 pace? That's easy.' I totally underestimated the fatigue level. That was just a disaster — I was getting so fried. It's been working so much better the way I do it now.

MR: Who have you been training with there?
KD: Believe it or not, Marc Davis. He's been steadily making an amazing comeback. He doesn't run everything with me — he doesn't do my second runs with me — but he does a lot of the same workouts, parts of my long runs. Between him and David Morris and the Eddy and Teddy show [Editor's note: Eddy Hellebuyck and Teddy Mitchell]… I did one hard workout with Benoit Zwierzchiewski — any time you get to run with a 2:06 marathoner, that's not a bad thing. That's the thing when you come to Albuquerque — motivation is definitely ingrained.

MR: So what is Marc Davis doing?
KD: He has his eyes set on making the steeplechase team. In all his years, he's never done a real high-end aerobic base period. It's amazing to me to see how much progress he's making. I mean, he took three years off, no running, living a normal life. It's kind of an ideal situation for both of us.

MR: And he lives right near you back home in Reston.
KD: Right. This will continue with him. Then back home, historically I've worked out with the Georgetown team when it makes sense to, with part of that group. And with Alan Webb occasionally. I have my pick of partners there, albeit middle-distance guys, but that's good — marathoners and mid-distance guys can play off each other.

MR: How much have you run with Webb?
KD: I've run with him, oh, maybe half a dozen times. Some of those were actual workouts, one a long run up to 16 miles. I'm always encouraged when I see middle-distance guys doing the aerobic conditioning — it's the one variable that you can really make a big difference in.

MR: How is it different being at altitude now compared to when you lived there? Do you have to allow for an adjustment period?
KD: My first and last weeks when I come to altitude now are down weeks, like 70 to 80 miles with a medium-type workout and a hard workout. The middle two are closer to 130. We're talking full on — two workouts, a long run. I feel even better when I come up now. I'm bringing in some more speed in my legs than I would have if I was always at altitude, and then when I'm here it's like this training camp environment. I mean, I'm leaving my wife and kid behind, I'm really focused. You can't do that if you're living here, have that kind of mental outlook.

MR: Is Sunday's half your first race since the World Championships Marathon?
KD: I ran some small races in the fall. None really went too well. I ran cross country club nationals and was in the 30s there, got my butt kicked. I ran a 10K Thanksgiving morning near home, in Ashburn. I hit just under 5:00 pace and I got outkicked for the win!

MR: By who?
KD: Michael Wardian. You know him? [Editor's Note: Wardian qualified for the Trials in October by running 2:21:48.] And then to pour salt in the wound, he outkicks me and doesn't warm down, but gets in his car and drives off to another race. Marc had to do a lot of consoling after that one, remind me I was in the midst of a 120-mile week, remind me of my training. Still, Thanksgiving morning, I don't know what I was thankful for. And back in my hometown, in York, I did the White Rose 5-miler in like 25:16. So I haven't had any real positives race-wise. This race this weekend is the first one I'm not completely training through, the first where I'm thinking, 'Okay, let's see what we have to work with here.'

MR: And what would be good?
KD: Anything from 1:04:10 to 1:05:00. [Editor's note: Dowling ran 1:05:52 and finished third.]

MR: And will you race after that before the Trials?
KD: No. I'll finish my last hard cycle, do a lot of pace running. There's not really time in there for another race.

You know, I should say that these little races, they added another element for me. Even though in none of them did I feel good, they helped me once I got up here — I feel like a whole other athlete in the last three to four weeks. And I think they'll help me in the Trials. The guys in the 70s would race a lot and use them as workouts. Obviously, they knew what they were doing. Back in the day, you saw more guys racing in the context of being marathoners, just showing up and knowing that workouts are one thing, and although they might not run any faster in these races than in workouts, there's something you can get only from racing. I understand why people may not want to do it. You don't want to get beat. And if you're running 18 miles a day and you just show up, chances are some guy is going to be there feeling good and fresh, and beat you. It goes against the grain of the compulsive behavior of a lot of runners. I just have to remind myself, 'Okay, what is the purpose of this run? What did I do yesterday? What am I doing tomorrow?'

MR: Your last marathon was World Champs, in August. You were just coming back from injury when you found out you were on the team, and didn't do all that well there. If you had it to do over again, would you have run Worlds?
KD: To be on a Worlds team at this stage of my career, yeah, I still probably would have gone. One effect it had is, it's not the Olympics, but it's pretty damn close, it demystified the whole process. Things like the logistics, the whole team being in the same dorm, it had a very Olympics feel. I'm glad for the experience of little things like getting credentialed, things like that, so that if I make the Olympic team, it won't be a big deal.

MR: Would you still have run Worlds given the changes that have occurred since then? Then, you didn't have the Olympic "A" standard. Now you do, because they relaxed it, but then you didn't, but you could have gotten it if you had been top 20 at Worlds.
KD: Sure, getting the "A" standard by being top 20 was one of my main goals, but getting that experience was a bigger part of the deal. The way the race worked out, it's one of the few times that cooler weather kinda bit me back in the ass. It was the coolest day of the whole meet, and it turned into a regular marathon — nothing like Steve Spence coming from behind in the heat. I think you had to run the old "A" standard just to be in the top 20. Anytime you hope people are going to do poorly…at that level, you don't want to hedge your bets that way.

MR: You had less than an ideal buildup for that race.
KD: Ha! I think I surpassed that twice already in this buildup, between my injury in the spring and the way they notified the athletes. I only started running again in June.

MR: When did you find out you were on the team?
KD: Second week of July. Race was August 30.

MR: What was your injury?
KD: Stress fracture of the second metatarsal in my left foot. It was sort of what happened to me before the Trials in 2000, but on the other foot — it happened two days after a 10-mile race, it even happened running on the same trail. When that happened again, I thought, 'Oh man, what is going on here?'

MR: So this was when?
KD: April Fool's Day, believe it or not. April — stay away from getting hurt in April. There's never a good time to get hurt, but April, you miss all the races in April and May, it screws up your summer and your fall.

MR: What did you do to fix it?
KD: It's funny, same injury as in 2000, I'm thinking, 'What am I doing wrong? Am I maybe overtraining? Is that why I'm getting this again?' I saw this excellent podiatrist, Dr. Brian Fullem. He was so cool. I didn't even know the guy, I called him up on a Wednesday. By that Friday I'm flying to his house to stay with him. To him, it seemed pretty plain — the first metatarsal on both of my feet are slightly hypermobile and not taking the brunt of the force like they're supposed to. So he made me insoles with metatarsal pads, and I've had no problems since then.

MR: Let's talk about the Trials next month. You were sixth in '96. Is this a harder or easier team to make?
KD: To me it looks very similar. If you go back to '96, you had two or three guys who everyone figured should make the team, then half a dozen other guys who could be factors. This year, without Khannouchi in there, once you take him out of the equation, it's pretty much the same. Going into '96, you had Kempainen with a 2:08:47; this time, you have Culpepper with his 2:09:40-something. And also, since they relaxed the "A" standard, it looks like '96. Then it was kinda Kempainen and Coogan, and everybody else, and now I guess it's Culpepper and Meb, and everybody else. My situation is pretty much the same — I can go in relaxed, no real tension.

MR: Meb was supposed to run the half this weekend and scratched, and now everyone is talking about him. What have you heard?
KD: I heard he had the flu. Of course, here in Albuquerque, you can hear all kinds of things, like he's been hurt and hasn't been able to do workouts since Chicago.

Look, like I said, hoping that people are going to do bad is a bad approach. My best preparation mentally is to think, 'Either Meb is going to be there, ready, or he's not going to be there.' There's going to be a lot of guys there with their "A" games on, so I better bring mine.

MR: Do you do specific mental preparation, like thinking through various scenarios of how the race might go?
KD: It's kinda hard not to think about. I've got all these long runs and miles; plenty of time to think about it when training. But it's hard to know everything about your competitors. You can know a little by their history, but you can't know everything that they might be up to.

I always go back to what Kempainen did in '96. Through 18 miles, it felt like I was out for a nice long, steady run with my friends. Then, with eight to go, it became a whole other animal. I think we went 4:48 from 18 to 19, and that was uphill. That's when the team was decided. I knew it right away — you could just see the team sorting itself out. I tried like hell to hang on, but I didn't have the tools at the time. Now, I have that experience to draw on and eight years of accumulated mileage. Hopefully, that will make me stronger. That's what I have going for me.

MR: None of the guys who beat you in '96 are still at that level. You've been a professional runner pretty much since graduating from college in '91. To what do you attribute being around this long, and at a pretty consistent level?
KD: (Laughs) I'm not compulsive enough to overrace or overtrain.

I just finished reading Dick Beardsley's book, and how he compacted a possible 8- or 10-year career into like two years. It brought him results — really, really good results — and it brought them fast. But I was reading in there where he says, 'If only I'd backed off once in a while. If only I'd listened when people told me to take it easy.' I've never had that problem! If anything, maybe I'm too easy on myself, and should have run faster.

But you know, these aren't necessarily choices that one makes — it really comes down to personality. Dick Beardsley might say now how he should have done things differently, but I bet he couldn't. He admits to having that more compulsive personality. I don't think Todd Williams could have done his career any differently — that's just he how he is, it's part of his emotional make-up. But that's not really me. I'm more laid-back, more of a steady-as-she-goes type.

The other thing is, I really like the lifestyle. It's really good while you have it. I enjoy the process of training and building up to races, especially the marathon. So I've kinda wanted to keep doing it. And I think maybe I've lasted because I like doing my homework, researching what works for me and other people and making adjustments when I need to.

MR: What has changed in your approach?
KD: Nothing radical. It's funny — my oldest PR is in the half marathon; my 800 PR is more recent by six months. So I've always been a pretty complete runner. It's more subtle differences — the way I ran back then played more on bringing the speed aspect to the races, whereas now I'm approaching it more from strength, as I've shifted toward training specifically for the marathon.

MR: Did you always plan to eventually focus on the marathon?
KD: Yeah, I knew, and having Steve Spence as another Pennsylvania guy, that was kind of a big influence. He always said to me the marathon was where I would find my niche. I mean, I'm not bad at the shorter stuff — I've run 8:26 for 2 miles; some of my middle-distance times aren't bad. But I knew the marathon was for me. I wasn't one to wait — I ran my first one when I was 25, then I ran the Trials in '96. Then I didn't run another one for two years. That was probably my biggest mistake — I should have run one a year, and not just focus on shorter races.

Here's the thing: Being a marathoner really does help you in shorter races, contrary to what my running generation thought. I think a lot of us put up these false walls between the marathon and being fast at shorter distances. I think we were given some misinformation.

MR: By who?
KD: (Laughs) I don't know. Whoever "they" are. I think we were too smart for our own good. You know, you start at the 1,500, then you run the 5,000, and you work your way up, blah, blah, blah.

MR: Between when you started and now, what's changed about the pro running scene?
KD: Today, there's this influx of Hansons-type groups, which is great. I mean, I was fortunate enough to get hooked up with adidas from the start, and they've been ultra-loyal, but I was always on my own. There weren't those groups like the Hansons and Team USA.

MR: So is it harder or easier for someone graduating from college today who is at the level you were when you graduated?
KD: I think it would be about the same. I was 13:49/28:54 out of college, and I bet it would be about the same if that's what you are now. The big difference is that now you could look into joining one of those groups. You're not going to get much of a contract; the shoe contract situation is probably the same.

MR: What kind of money are we talking here?
KD: Zero. Starting out at that level, shoes and maybe some money for travel. Despite running decent times in college, the majority of guys aren't going to get a lot of money. It's weird, though — back then, I never thought about the fact that I didn't have a car or that I had to live with a bunch of guys in one house. I thought it was a really cool adventure. I always had what I needed, and just thought about how cool it was that I could concentrate on my running.

MR: What's it like winning money at races now compared to then?
KD: When I was getting out of school was right around when you started seeing tons of Kenyans at pretty much every race. Anytime I ran a road race back then it was totally open, no separate races or money for Americans only. So maybe in a way, it's easier to win money at races now.

MR: Is that good or bad?
KD: I see both. If you're a young guy, developing, and you're setting up your schedule and you don't include some open races, you're cheating yourself. You've got to get exposed to that other level, to going up against the big boys. I run a lot of U.S.-only races now while getting ready for a marathon. It doesn't make sense in the context of the marathon to go down to Peachtree and get killed and go away empty-handed. If I were 22 and looking to improve, I would do a mix of races where I knew I could make some money and running against the big boys. It's common sense, really, but you would be surprised…

MR: Now that you're not 22, but close to 35, do you think about what happens if you don't make the marathon team?
KD: I would do a fall marathon and try to PR. I would pick up my training with Marc and see what happens on the track this summer. I guess if I didn't make the team, and nothing is going on for me on the track this summer, and I struggle through a fall marathon, that might close the book on me. But physically, I still feel good, and it would kinda be nonsense to say, 'This is it — 2004 is it.'

You know, these numbers start to creep into your head — in our culture, you're not supposed to be 34 or 35 and still doing this. That's crap. That's someone else's reality, not mine. Like I said, I still feel good physically, in some ways stronger than ever. I guess the biggest difference is I get these small injuries now — Achilles tendinitis, calf strains. They seem to come up a bit more, and they don't go away as quick as they used to. So now I have to ice and pay attention to all those little things. But you know, everybody goes through this stuff, usually earlier than I am. I really have been pretty lucky.

(Interview conducted January 8, 2004, posted January 15, 2004)