Interview: Matt Downin

By Erik Heinonen

After toeing the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge starting line as a rabbit last fall, Matt Downin will debut over 26.2 miles at the 34th running of the ING New York City Marathon next month. A four-time All American at the University of Wisconsin, Downin is a member of Team USA California based at the ARCO Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista, California, and Mammoth Lakes in the Sierra Nevada mountains. With Team USA, the 26-year-old New Hampshire native trains under former UCLA distance coach Bob Larsen, who also works with Meb Keflezighi, last year's top American finisher at New York.

Introduced to distance running by his older brother Andy, a standout miler at Georgetown and the 2001 USA champ at 1,500m, Matt twice qualified for the Foot Locker High School Cross Country Championships and capped his senior season by winning the national title in a tight race with his instate rival and friend, John Mortimer. At Wisconsin, Downin captured a pair of Big 10 cross country crowns and finished fourth at the NCAA Cross Country Championships in both 1998 and 1999.

Since graduating in 2000, Downin has represented the United States at two World Cross Country Championships (2001, 2002) and posted a pair of top-seven national championship finishes in the 10,000 on the track (seventh in 2000, sixth in 2001). His personal bests currently stand at 4:00.5 (mile), 13:40 (5000) and 28:38 (10,000).

MensRacing.com: You're about four weeks out from race day. How has the preparation gone to this point?
Matt Downin: It's going okay. I've had a long year, a lot of little problems. I've been healthy pretty much since July. That's when I decided to run the marathon, and when I set my goal out there. I basically said, 'If I can be healthy for four months and get in some decent training, I'd be ready for it.' I'm certain that if I had three more weeks, I'd probably would be better off, but I'll be okay. I'll run well.

MR: With the injuries, have you been able to do much racing this past year?
MD: I ran the New York Road Runners' 8k in April (he finished 28th) and the [New Haven] 20k on September 1 in Connecticut (he finished 15th in 1:01:29) and that's it. Well, I ran a couple of small road races in Southern California, but not as races, just sort of as workouts.

MR: Are you someone who is comfortable heading into a big event without having raced much, or would you have preferred having so more chances to competitive beforehand?
MD: With the year that I had and the way I prepare, certainly, I would love to have more time and maybe run a half marathon somewhere else in there. But, I'm as ready as I'm going to be. It's my first one and if anything, I under-prepared for it. But I think I'm ready.

MR: Is the marathon something you're going to focus on in the future, or do you have track goals that still need to be dealt with?
MD: I still have goals on the track. I think with anything new that you try — and the marathon is definitely something very different — there's always the possibility that you'll enjoy it or be really good at it and may make it the only thing that you do. But more likely, it'll be a springboard to having a good outdoor season because it's enabled me to train at a decent volume and do a lot of the strength work that I think is really important. And, a little bit of success in the marathon, as we've seen in the last few years, can lead to some success on the track — the way Meb ran, and what Deena has done. So that's basically my thinking. I wanted to run one before I got too old, just in case it's something that I'm really good at. I didn't want to rule out the possibility that it was something I really wanted to be into for a while.

MR: Do you have a time goal in mind for New York? What would be a "good" race for you?
MD: 2:04:20 (laughs). I don't know. Obviously it's totally new for me. I've had a lot of discussions with a lot of the coaches that I deal with, and I haven't really set a concrete goal in my mind time-wise. Five minute pace is something I'm getting really comfortable at and that's 2:11:05. Running 2:11:05 at New York in my debut marathon probably would be beyond what I'm capable of doing, so 2:12 to 2:13 would be something I'd be very very happy with. To break 2:12 would be a big deal. Very few Americans have done that the last few years. But there's also the possibility I'll run 2:15, and I can't be upset with myself. There's a wide range of things that can happen. I know it's a long race and it's not something everyone has success at every time they run. I'm not going to be upset if I run 2:15, 2:16 but at the same time, the reason why I'm running it is that I'm hoping I am the kind of runner who can run 2:12 or better.

MR: How do you plan to approach the race as far as tactics and pacing go?
MD: As far as I know right now, there is a second rabbit that is going to run between 1:05 and 1:05:30 through the half, which is just at or a little bit faster than 5-minute pace. It's actually the same pace I ran last year through 15-and-a-half. I'm assuming the three or four Americans that I know of that are going to be there are going to run with that rabbit. I think it behooves me to be with that rabbit and be with that pack and run that pace. And certainly, if if I get to 10, 11 or 12 miles and feel that pace is a little over my head, I can check off, take a little breather and find a pace that is smarter for me to run at. Hopefully [five-minute pace] is what I should be doing.

MR: Do you feel like running the first 15+ miles of the race last fall is going to be a big benefit when it comes to this year's race?
MD: Oh yeah, definitely. I've always known the marathon was something I wanted to do, and whether or not New York was the one I wanted to run. It was a great experience for me going through the process of traveling to the marathon and being a part of it, waking up in the morning and preparing as if it were a marathon for me. It was a big deal for me. I had a pretty serious job to do. It was definitely a great experience and going back to New York this year, I know the hotel we're staying at, I know the area, I know how the morning of is going to work, what the starting line is going to feel like and what first 15 miles feels like. Most people running their debut marathon don't get to experience that [beforehand], unless they're on a course that they're familiar with. It'll definitely help me, but I still have to run the last 10 miles of it this year.

MR: Now you've been training in San Diego for quite while, since before Team USA California was set up, right?
MD: Basically since the fall of 2001, I've been between San Diego and Mammoth. I still spend some time back in Madison, Wisconsin, when I have time and it fits. We get together to train either in San Diego, or up here in Mammoth. When there is downtime and we're not training, it really doesn't make much sense to be out here, so I do end up spending a good amount of time either back home in New Hampshire or back in Madison, training with my brother and those guys.

MR: How does a typical year set up for your group? Is there a lot of coming and going?
MD: Yeah, there's a lot of in-and-out, lots of different schedules. Ryan Shay, who's in the group, this past year ran the [USA Marathon Championships] and the World Championships Marathon, so he was in and out depending on what he was getting ready for at the time. Meb [Keflezighi] is in the group and he spend a good deal of time up here in Mammoth, but is always getting ready for something a little different than a lot of us. I was hurt or sick most of the year and spent all of the year — since Jan. 1 — in San Diego and didn't come up to Mammoth until early September. People get together when they want to train, and when someone's hurt or sick or whatever, they go home and rehab or go to the training center and rehab. It's a good group.

MR: It sounds like people are on different pages a lot of the time. How much training do you all actually do together?
MD: The way it usually ends up working is when we do get together, when we're training together, people are on the same page. Ideally, it's that way. We get together after the first of the year in San Diego, and most of the people are getting ready for winter cross country nationals. This year that will be a little different because we'll have probably a few people running the marathon trials, but for the most part it's one thing or the other and all on a similar timeline. And then, obviously, the spring track season pretty much sets up the same for everyone, with the the USA Championships being the focus. Then in the fall a lot of times, we get together up here in Mammoth and half the group is getting ready for a fall marathon and half the group is just up here doing their fall base training. It tends to work out pretty well.

MR: Who do find yourself doing the most training with?
MD: This year, being down in San Diego, I was alone most of the time. But I do a lot of stuff with Meb. Luke Watson just joined the group. I'll probably end up doing a lot of stuff during the track season with him.

MR: What's your coaching situation?
MD: I work mainly with Coach (Bob) Larsen. Bob also coaches Meb. Coach (Joe) Vigil, coaches Ryan Shay and Luke Watson and Deena. But both coaches work with us. Even though most of what I do as an athlete is written up by Coach Larsen, I see Coach Vigil every day and definitely get a lot of his wisdom. It's nice to have both of them around — two people with different ideas.

MR: What have you been emphasizing in your marathon training?
MD: Tempo runs are a big deal. We do weekly tempo runs as far as — if you're getting ready for a marathon — 15 miles, as short as eight or nine or 10 miles. Those are usually done at goal marathon pace or right around that. Up here at altitude, it's a little bit harder to run that fast, but we get as close as we can.

And obviously, long runs. I actually do two long runs a week. One of them a little longer — that's gotten up to about 24 miles — and another one that's a little shorter, usually around 16 or 17. That's my main focus, as far as my marathon preparation has gone. A weekly repeat session is really more of a sharpening thing than anything else. There's not very much volume in that, and nothing ridiculously hard.

MR: What's your volume been like, in non-Wisconsin miles?
MD: [Laughs] I only know the Wisconsin way of counting miles, the Martin Smith way. In Martin miles, my highest mileage week has been 117 so probably closer to 125-130.

MR: Do you think joining Team USA or a similar group is the way to go for an athlete coming out of college with legitimate post-collegiate aspirations?
MD: Well, I definitely think as a country — and I don't know who would argue against this — it's really important to get people together, to get them working together. It's much easier as an athlete to have people around when you're doing the things you need to do, when you're training really hard. That said, I think there are different types of people, different types of athletes, and certainly different types of coaches, and it's not easy to get six or eight or 10 people together who can work together and keep that as a cohesive group for very long.

I think one of the things that you see going on in the U.S. is these groups pop up, and they work for a while, then fall apart. It's just too hard to keep good groups together because people change and people have personalities. It's very difficult, but it's certainly necessary, I think, for the development of distance runners. You need people around, you need people to give you ideas, you need people telling you what to do.

I think we have a great thing going on out here, and certainly some of the groups around the US— Alberto's group in Portland, Hansons, the Team USA Minnesota group, the Farm Team — all have great things going with good coaches, good people and good programs. But it's really hard to keep it going. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot effort by the people who are involved with it.

MR: Being with a Team USA obviously has it's advantages but there still must be lots of challenges as far as staying afloat as a post-collegiate athlete.
MD: For the individual, there are a lot of challenges. You have life to deal with. Most of us aren't making a lot of money. Most of us have family and friends and girlfriends and things going on in our lives day-to-day, month-to-month and year-to-year. We come up here and we sacrifice a lot to train. Our specific situation is one of the best because we don't have to worry about housing when we're up here at Mammoth or down in San Diego. We don't have to worry as much about money because we do get help with per diem up here and at the training center. It erases those two concerns, but you still have things going on day-to-day that as a human being you have to deal with. Then there are those times when you're injured or sick; it becomes really hard to stay motivated. Those are probably the two biggest issues.

MR: Coming out of college you said there were some steps that you needed to make as an athlete. Do you feel like you've made them, or is that still something you're working on?
MD: I don't really feel like my transition from college to post-collegiate was very successful. I feel like that's still an ongoing process. There's a lot of development that I wish I had done by now, but injuries and illness and little things can get in the way. But, for the most part, I'm happy with where I am as an athlete. You can look at the really simple things, like the amount of volume I'm able to handle now as opposed to when I graduated from college, as opposed to early on in my college career. I'm really am positive about the fact that I can handle a lot more volume now and don't break down with it. Definitely, I'm a better workout runner now than I was three or four years ago. That was something I really needed to work on coming out of college. But, I think, as an athlete, that nobody would tell you they're happy with where they are... I always feel like I have a lot of things that I wish I could do that I can't do, but I don't think that will ever change. If I got to the point where I could run 140 miles a week and do all the little things just right, I would still feel like there was something I'm missing. You can always do more and you can always run faster.

MR: You had your ups and downs early in college. Looking back, can you see a silver lining that or something positive you've drawn from those experiences?
MD: Anytime you have setbacks or failures — whatever you want to call them — ups and downs, that's when you learn and grow as a person and as an athlete. My first couple years, really my first three years, taught me a lot about persevering and taught me that running wasn't everything, that it could go bad and you still could turn it around. I think [former Wisconsin coach Martin Smith] was really good for me in that sense, because he was a very patient coach and was able to take time with me and give me a chance to grow as an athlete and a student. It was hard, definitely. My first three years were really hard, but if anything, the silver lining was just learning that you're going to get hurt, you're going to have problems, you're going to have setbacks, the whole key is getting up the next morning and doing everything you can that day to either get better or get fitter. I guess that's what I learned early on in college, but you can always forget it.

MR: On a lighter tone, what's your brother, Andy, up to these days?
MD: He's still training in Madison, Wisconsin, working with [Wisconsin coach] Jerry Schumacher. He had a lot of little injuries this year, similar to what has happened throughout a lot of his career. It's really hard for Andy to get into a long sustained period of training time, and [that's been the case] since he graduated from college. He's been healthy now since May or June. He wasn't able to get in shape quick enough to run a US champs qualifier this year, but was coming around right at the end and running well. I think he's turned the corner on a lot of things and is looking forward to this year being a big one for him. He's [also] helping out the University of Wisconsin track team as an assistant.

MR: Do you have any interest in coaching at some point?
MD: Yeah, eventually I'd like to. I've always believed you do one or the other — you either coach or you continue your athletic career. When my athletic career is over, I'm going to decide whether I want to go into college coaching or go and get my high school teaching degree and coach and teach high school. I think one of those things is probably where I'll end up in the long run.

MR: How about a meet promoter, now that you've had some experience with that?
MD: Yeah, a little experience with our road race. Not on a large scale, I wouldn't like to do it. But, obviously, as a college coach you end up getting into some aspect of it. Our road race is a fun thing we like to do every year. It's called the Millennium Mile. It's the Sunday afternoon between Christmas and New Years. If anything, that's showed me how much work it is to put on a serious event. On a large scale, it's a lot of work, and I have a lot of respect for people who can put on big events. But, we have fun with it. We had 300 people [last] year. It's a fast course and it's always cold. We have a big party afterwards and we try to bring in as many big-time athletes as we can, so that the people can see a high level of running and get excited about it.

(Interview posted October 15, 2003)